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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:16 pm 
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mjrbrowns wrote:
With the top two clubs being automatically promoted & zero clubs coming the other way. It’ll just be the bottom 3 clubs relegated & replaced by the top 3 NL2 clubs.

Let me throw this argument into the mix.

As it stands, the Evostick Division 1 North will probably only relegate two teams as those in position for the drop are Skelmsdale Goole and Ossett Albion, but the latter will cease to exist as they amalgamate with Ossett Town who are in the same division.

The NCEL (44 clubs) and NWCL (45 clubs) have the same problem as NL in needing to lose clubs to meet the 20 club limit, I appreciate there is a new division coming at NWCL.

Those two leagues will gain an extra club whereas the NL will not. They would have a perfectly good argument that it is unfair to have to relegate more clubs to a lower level when the NL was not having any relegated club from the Evostick.

So would not the fairest thing to do be to laterally transfer a NCEL club to NL so that each of the feeder leagues gained one club and then the numbers having to be relegated would be the same?

And that in turn would make a difference to the relegation in both NL divisions


The F.A. are only relegating the bottom clubs from steps 3 & 4. With the Ossett clubs merging, I’d be surprised if Goole are relegated I’d they end up in the relegation position & Ossett Town now have nothing to play for. So they could easily end up bottom!
As for the two other leagues, they can laterally transfer teams into the United Counties or Midlands Football Leagues. This is a lot harder for teams in the EBAC NL. Apart from Northallerton & Penrith, the F.A. couldn’t realistically laterally transfer anyone else.
As for teams being laterally transferred from the NCEL, I think the teams in far West Yorkshire & Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire will be the ones being moved!


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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Mjrbrowns. Not a bad guess 2 out of 3 and I assumed Garforth as it's easy to get to and I did only look in Div 1.

Still not sure any of them would fancy a sidewards move to NL though

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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Windy1970 wrote:
handifan2 wrote:
Windy1970 wrote:

I like both clubs tbh & don’t mind a bit of football banter. If I was a Bishop’s fan I’d pray for the season to end. Because the way things are going, the trap door is just starting to open for them & those below are starting to pick up some crucial points!


Windy1970, what are the permutations for relegation from ENL1 this season considering the reduction to 20 teams and the reluctance of some clubs to take automatic promotion? Could there be up to 5 teams relegated?


With the top two clubs being automatically promoted & zero clubs coming the other way. It’ll just be the bottom 3 clubs relegated & replaced by the top 3 NL2 clubs.


Thanks Windy1970.
Just one more question.... The top two are not automatic promotion so should 2nd place miss out on ppg, does that mean 4 down, 3 up?
Marske form could easily drop off should their progress in the Vase continue while current 2nd and 3rd place sides are less than 2 ppg which isn't great. Could 4th bottom be related in this case?


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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Windy1970, what are the permutations for relegation from ENL1 this season considering the reduction to 20 teams and the reluctance of some clubs to take automatic promotion? Could there be up to 5 teams relegated?


With the top two clubs being automatically promoted & zero clubs coming the other way. It’ll just be the bottom 3 clubs relegated & replaced by the top 3 NL2 clubs.


Thanks Windy1970.
Just one more question.... The top two are not automatic promotion so should 2nd place miss out on ppg, does that mean 4 down, 3 up?
Marske form could easily drop off should their progress in the Vase continue while current 2nd and 3rd place sides are less than 2 ppg which isn't great. Could 4th bottom be related in this case?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dr ... dbox/Step5
The NL teams are 2nd out of 14 on the ppg basis. So there’s little chance that the top two won’t be promoted. Also the F.A. have stated that the two 2nd placed teams that miss out, will be promoted before any clubs are reprieved. With Hartlepool potentially folding & the Ossett’s merging, there’s a chance that all 14 2nd placed teams will be promoted.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Windy1970 wrote:

With the top two clubs being automatically promoted


Won’t happen.

Do any clubs actually want to go up?


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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:48 pm 
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mut2011 wrote:
This situation is getting crazier by the day mate.3 seasons?so in theory a well funded Chester-le-street or jarrow roofing could go on double/treble promotions and play likes of York city,Hartlepool,Darlington Stockport and Kidderminster in totally inadequate grounds?


In theory if a club was so well funded and climbed the leagues wouldn't they also fund improvements to their ground?

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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:15 pm 
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paxton1410 wrote:
Windy1970 wrote:

With the top two clubs being automatically promoted


Won’t happen.

Do any clubs actually want to go up?


It is happening & the clubs have been told that they’ve all missed the deadline to state why they don’t want to go up! I believe the deadline was the 31st August 2017 & the F.A. told clubs that they would only take the requests not to go up into consideration. The F.A. have told league’s that compulsory promotion is here to stay & the league’s have to accept this to be part of the pyramid. No league is going to cut off it’s funding from the F.A. & no club in the EBAC NL will support the league pulling out of the pyramid. Because you have to be part of the pyramid to play in the F.A. Vase. To be honest, if clubs don’t want to go up it’s a bit tough but they’ll just have to accept that things have changed!


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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:31 pm 
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The F.A. are only relegating the bottom clubs from steps 3 & 4. With the Ossett clubs merging, I’d be surprised if Goole are relegated I’d they end up in the relegation position & Ossett Town now have nothing to play for. So they could easily end up bottom!

Cant see that happening as Ossett Town are 17 points ahead of Goole with 14 games left and Goole have only managed 18 points in 24 games already played. More likely that Ossett Albion could finish bottom with nothing to play for they are only 3 points ahead of Goole. Now here is a point, dont the FA have a rule that if you amalgamate the new club takes the position of the lowest placed club ( so that you cant jump up the pyramid by amalgamating) so if Ossett Albion finish bottom would that not put the new Ossett "United" relegated to the NCEL?


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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:36 pm 
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mjrbrowns wrote:
Now here is a point, dont the FA have a rule that if you amalgamate the new club takes the position of the lowest placed club ( so that you cant jump up the pyramid by amalgamating) so if Ossett Albion finish bottom would that not put the new Ossett "United" relegated to the NCEL?


Correct:

Quote:
6.5.5 The Merged Club will ordinarily be placed at the lower of the Steps at which the Merging Clubs ended the Playing Season in which the application is made. For the purposes of this Regulation, if one of the Merging Clubs has finished that Playing Season in a relegation place, then they will be deemed to have ended the Playing Season at the Step to which they would have been relegated without the Proposed Merger proceeding.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:49 pm 
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paxton1410 wrote:
Windy1970 wrote:

With the top two clubs being automatically promoted


Won’t happen.

Do any clubs actually want to go up?


They've got no choice this season and the FA have made it clear to all clubs so Morpeth and one other will be gone

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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Did an unnamed club state they intended to appeal against compulsory promotion? Did anything come of it

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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Windy1970 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:

With the top two clubs being automatically promoted & zero clubs coming the other way. It’ll just be the bottom 3 clubs relegated & replaced by the top 3 NL2 clubs.


Thanks Windy1970.
Just one more question.... The top two are not automatic promotion so should 2nd place miss out on ppg, does that mean 4 down, 3 up?
Marske form could easily drop off should their progress in the Vase continue while current 2nd and 3rd place sides are less than 2 ppg which isn't great. Could 4th bottom be related in this case?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dr ... dbox/Step5
The NL teams are 2nd out of 14 on the ppg basis. So there’s little chance that the top two won’t be promoted. Also the F.A. have stated that the two 2nd placed teams that miss out, will be promoted before any clubs are reprieved. With Hartlepool potentially folding & the Ossett’s merging, there’s a chance that all 14 2nd placed teams will be promoted.


Windy,
Marske have a much better ppg but are involved in the later stages of the Vase so their ppg could easily get much worse should they rest players for the Vase and face a fixture backlog. Consett, should they finish in 2nd, their ppg would be last by some distance in the list of 2nd placed teams on ppg.
So if the 2nd placed ENL team should finish 13th or 14th in the ppg table, and only 26 are promoted as planned that would mean only 1 team automatically promoted from the ENL1. Might be a long shot but it is possible.
In that case, if it is 3 up 3 down then 21 teams will remain in the league. So would the FA then relegate 4 to reduce the league down to 20?


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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:19 pm 
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mjrbrowns wrote:
now here is a point, dont the FA have a rule that if you amalgamate the new club takes the position of the lowest placed club ( so that you cant jump up the pyramid by amalgamating) so if Ossett Albion finish bottom would that not put the new Ossett "United" relegated to the NCEL?


Yes, BUT, there's nothing stopping Albion resigning from the league and Town changing their name to 'United'. Who's then to say it's a merger?

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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:30 pm 
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Wack wrote:
Did an unnamed club state they intended to appeal against compulsory promotion? Did anything come of it


They’ve got two hopes


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 Post subject: Re: Northern League Restructure Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:10 am 
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mjrbrowns wrote:
The F.A. are only relegating the bottom clubs from steps 3 & 4. With the Ossett clubs merging, I’d be surprised if Goole are relegated I’d they end up in the relegation position & Ossett Town now have nothing to play for. So they could easily end up bottom!

Cant see that happening as Ossett Town are 17 points ahead of Goole with 14 games left and Goole have only managed 18 points in 24 games already played. More likely that Ossett Albion could finish bottom with nothing to play for they are only 3 points ahead of Goole. Now here is a point, dont the FA have a rule that if you amalgamate the new club takes the position of the lowest placed club ( so that you cant jump up the pyramid by amalgamating) so if Ossett Albion finish bottom would that not put the new Ossett "United" relegated to the NCEL?

Would the merger create a situation whereby Goole or Ossett United are both reprieved. Because there’s no need to relegate anyone! The loss of an Ossett club opens up the space.
With the F.A. only relegating the 6 bottom placed teams. I’m sure the F.A. will relegate the 5 & count the lost Ossett club as the 6th. I’m sure those involved around Ossett would’ve asked the question & received a positive response.


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